When you come to November Project, in most cities around the world, there is a physical gathering of humans (and sometimes a dog or two), usually a tightly packed bounce, which becomes a larger physical experience in the form of a group workout. The human contact that comes with many partner workout moves, the supportive high-5’s, and then the signature hugs, are all a part of what you should expect. I’ll admit, in this human experiment we’ve taken “I’m not a runner,” and proved them wrong over time as NP became the vehicle to the starting line of first races. We’ve taken “I’m not a morning person” and we’ve proved them wrong as consistency in rising & shining made a pattern for many (Bojan & I included). And we’ve taken, “I’m not a hugger,” and turned them… BUT WAIT, Is this all the same? Can we force human contact on people because we know what is good for other people? It is time we look closer at this piece of our culture and the below anonymous post will help us all do just that. Read this with an open mind for all experiences on all sides of this topic. Remember, we should be in this community to push ourselves and to push our fellow NP’ers around us, but never at the cost of making anyone feel unsafe. This blog is from any of us, this post is from all of us…
I want to start off by saying that this was really hard and uncomfortable to write and it might be hard to read, but please let yourself be uncomfortable for a few minutes while you read it. I continually reminded myself that though writing this was uncomfortable and challenging, so has my first year in November Project been uncomfortable and challenging. I went back and forth on how vulnerable I was willing to get in this blog. I had to remind myself that with all of the challenges I have seen so much growth in myself, so here we go.
In wanting to write about my experiences in NP this year I want to go back a bit and share about my childhood…I grew up in a household where I was forced to hug everyone my family told me to. It didn’t matter if I tried to say a quiet, “No.” I remember being shy and quiet as a child and trying to walk away and hide from people I felt uncomfortable around and being told, “Oh, quit being so shy and give him a hug.”
Hugs were forced with family members and strangers even when I clearly said, “No.” What started as a forced hug with someone as a child quickly turned into more than that and I was sexually abused. I never got the courage to say anything about it until 15 years later. I felt a lot of shame and I was worried about what the response would be if/when I said something. I had a reason to be worried because I was dismissed and silenced when I tried to speak up.
Growing up I spent most of my time outside of school in my room. Locking myself in my room was my safe place. I had a lot of social anxiety and kept to myself. I never had a large group of friends and the few I did have I kept at a distance because I didn’t want people to get too close. I was very guarded and didn’t share much about myself even with my friends and family. Romantic relationships were nonexistent as that would be way too close for comfort. I lived life by hiding as much as possible. I walked around with my head down and avoided eye contact. I tried to give off a “Please don’t look at me” vibe so people would leave me alone.
Fast forward to November 2013…I read the article about November Project by Caleb Daniloff in Runners World. I immediately stopped reading though when I saw Brogan Graham’s quote, “At November Project, we are not shakers. We are huggers. If you’re not comfortable with that, you’re not going to like it here.” I was definitely not a hugger. NP also did not seem like the best place to go if I wanted to continue hiding. So, I told myself I would never show up.
Something changed though last year. I couldn’t afford a gym membership and I was bored of solo runs. Since I read the NP article in Runners World I started reading NP blog posts and checking out NP Instagram and Facebook pages. Though I thought there was no way I would ever show up, I was curious about it all. I was going through a time in my life where I knew I wanted to make some changes and wasn’t happy with where my life was headed. I asked myself, “Are you really going to fucking hide in your room your whole life and let your past experiences and a quote about hugging from a dude you’ve never met keep you from checking this out?”
My answer to myself was that I needed to at least check out one workout and see what I thought. I thought I could get out of the hugging and somehow hide in the background of the group so as not to have to draw any extra attention to myself. I quickly learned from the first hug and “I’m glad you’re here” that hiding would be hard here and I needed to embrace the discomfort or go back to hiding in my room.
SPOILER ALERT! I kept showing up and not just to workouts. In the past year I have been to almost every workout and countless social events and races with the tribe. I even went to Summit in Boston.
I’ve never felt comfortable with all of the hugging and physical contact at NP, but I felt like I had to at least fake it to fit in. Unfortunately, my boundaries haven’t always been respected around physical contact at NP. There have been multiple instances where I have tried to high five instead of hug or have put my hand out and said “No” and it hasn’t been respected. My arms have been physically moved around someone’s body when I was not interested in a hug and someone was attempting to force me to. I recently tried to stop someone giving me a hug because I had not met him before and when I tried to introduce myself and ask for his name he still went in for the hug and said, “Why does it matter if you know my name? You don’t need to know my name to give hugs at NP.” It matters to me.
Soon after these incidents I tried talking to a NP friend about my discomfort and I was told, “Most people come to NP and are cool with physical contact. It’s assumed that everyone is because they know there is hugging, so if you’re not cool with it, NP isn’t for you.” I felt silenced and like it was just my problem and maybe I should just leave NP. I kept getting messages that I didn’t belong here. I was getting the message that I needed to be ok with people forcing their bodies on me without my consent.
There was an incident that happened recently that really upset me. In the middle of the workout I was touched and words were whispered to me by someone I do not know in a way that was very inappropriate. It made me feel extremely uncomfortable and very unsafe. I wish I could say that I immediately said something to the person who did this to me, or anyone for that matter, but I stayed silent initially. After this incident I told myself, “Fuck November Project. I’m done. I’m walking away from this.” Something made me take a step back though and I thought a lot about what I wanted and needed to do about all of this after this incident.
My default has always been to stay silent instead of speaking up, especially after my experience of trying to speak up about my past abuse and being dismissed. But one week later, I did work up the courage to bring all of this up to the co-leaders of my home tribe and then the co-founders of NP, Brogan and Bojan. It has been extremely hard for me to have these conversations, but I’m glad that I have. It’s a big deal that I felt safe and comfortable enough to speak up with who I have about it. I honestly can’t fully put into words how much it means to me that I was listened to and not dismissed.
In the midst of having these hard conversations with people, I met someone at an NP workout that was traverbaling (visiting from another tribe for all you awesome newbies out there). I started talking to him during the workout and asked him what brought him to NP. He vulnerably shared with me why he started showing up and he shared about how much coming to NP and the hugs, the touch, and human contact mean to him. I realized in being so focused on my own shit, I was forgetting about the other side of things. So many people show up to NP for the connection and human contact, for the touch. I began to ask myself, “Why do I keep showing up?”
In asking myself this question among others, I felt like I needed to take a break from showing up to NP workouts. Since I started NP a year ago, I have only missed a few workouts due to sickness and travel so taking a break was a big deal. A big theme of this past year for me has been continually pushing myself out of my comfort zone and doing things like speaking up instead of staying silent. Instead of trying so hard to fit in and not speak up when I’ve been uncomfortable at NP, I am now using my voice and speaking up.
One of my many struggles in writing this blog has been not wanting to come across really negative and like I hate NP because that couldn’t be further from the truth. I am speaking up because NP means so much to me. I hope that I can turn my experience into an opportunity for positive change.
I do not currently feel very safe at NP and that is why I am taking a break. I want NP to feel safe and inclusive and I want my “No’s” to be respected. I want everyone to feel safe and like we can all be who we are at. NP needs to be a place where we can safely speak up and be listened to. I think there is plenty of room for both huggers and shakers.
Going back to Brogan’s quote, “At November Project, we are not shakers. We are huggers. If you’re not comfortable with that, you’re not going to like it here.” That quote may have been one of the reasons I didn’t show up to NP for so long. Now I want to prove Brogan wrong and work on making NP a place where huggers and shakers and all can come and feel comfortable being who they are. I want to help bring about positive change and have that be the reason I stay.
In having these conversations with NP leadership I keep coming back to how we as tribe members need to step it up. We look up to the co-leaders, but I don’t think it’s their job to police us and they can’t be aware of every interaction that is taking place. They also don’t know what we as tribe members love or are uncomfortable with unless we speak up.
I think we can start by talking about uncomfortable topics like this. I am just one person sharing my story and I want to hear your story. Why do you show up? Maybe you’re reading this and haven’t shown up yet. That was me for a long time and I read these blogs and all the hugging talk kept me glued to my bed and the snooze button. I want YOU to feel like you can show up and be YOU and get whatever you want and need out of this community, whether it is hugs or something else.
One of my favorite quotes is, “Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about.” I loved showing up to NP for the first time by myself, knowing no one, and having no one know me. No one knew the battle I fought and the tears I shed in the car on the way there. We most likely don’t know everything about the person standing next to us in the bounce for example. Maybe it is someone who it took everything they had to get out of bed that morning and they just want to be there to be around people, but they don’t want hugs. Maybe they came just for the hugs, and don’t really want to workout. We don’t always know what’s going on with someone, but we can always be kind. And I shouldn’t have to say this, but listen when someone says, “No.” We all have different comfort levels and boundaries and that needs to be respected. I want all of us to open our eyes and watch out for each other, respect each other, and offer support.
Thank you for reading. Now let’s have some conversations…
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Hugs are great.
Consent is greater.
#alwaysask
AMEN‼️❗️❗️❗️‼️
Wow. Can’t say it better than that!
Thank you for writing this, and thank you for saying something. I’m looking forward to the discourse and to the changes that come to ensure that everyone feels safe and welcome in our weird little (big) community .
Thank you OP for your courage. Lindsay (and all NP) I have two changes to suggest for discussion, based on reading the blog and 40-some comments.
1) *Hugs should be received, not given.* By this I mean, we should re-frame hugging. “I’m a hugger” should mean, “I open my arms and invite people to hug me”, not, “I give hugs”. We should learn the discipline of not hugging someone who doesn’t first have their arms open. Now, this is NP, and many value the hugs – so I expect there will remain lots of open arms – but it also gives a more clear and immediate signal of when not to hug. Verbalizing “Is it alright if I give you a hug now?” seems to me a bit too awkward and lengthy to catch on in a meaningful way. In this, we would stop saying “give out hugs.”
2) We need a widely known yet optionally anonymous method for notifying tribe leaders of uncomfortable situations. Like a comment box at the manager’s desk of the grocery store. It would be great if someone added a tool to this site that allows anyone to submit an anonymous comment to the leaders of the tribe in a given city. It would then be up to the tribe leaders to use their discretion and take appropriate action – whether that’s watching someone a little more closely in a different context, having difficult conversations, or putting in place systematic or cultural changes to address the situation, or anything else – the leaders can’t act on what they don’t know about, and they must (and I trust will) act when they do. I think it would help if we made it easier to pass them anonymous notes.
So, what do others think of these ideas? Should we implement some form of them? Lest I come across as “holier-than-thou” with my above tone of should and should not – I want to assure everyone that I’m just as much trying to figure this out. In fact, I gave (in the way I’m now saying no longer should be done) many hugs as I introduced myself to rock-paper-scissor challengers this morning, and I’m seeing this now from a new perspective and feeling guilty.
I like the suggestions. Being open to “receive ” a hug is a great idea.
Really like the anonymous comment suggestion. It would definitely provide an avenue of discourse for those uncomfortable with speaking up and maybe not as ready as OP to challenge themselves to speak out.
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for reading my blog and for sharing your voice. I love that there is conversation happening. Thanks for sharing your hug thoughts. Hugging is a touchy subject (pun intended). I want to be clear to everyone that I definitely don’t want hugs banned from NP or anything. I’ve never wanted that. I know so many people come for the hugs and I love that. I wish I was more comfortable with hugs and I’m working on it, while trying to still be a part of NP in a way that feels safe to me. I’m in the process of trying out a lot of different ways to connect and get that human contact. I love that NP is weird and I think it could get even weirder and I’m going to try to help with that by trying out a lot of different things personally. What works for me won’t work for everyone though of course.
Thanks for sharing your idea about an anonymous way to contact tribe co-leaders. I honestly thought about this when I was feeling too anxious to speak up, I wondered if there was a way to say something anonymously. I ended up deciding for myself that if this was something I really wanted to be silent and/or anonymous about than NP really isn’t for me. This was just my thought process- I know we’re all different. NP means a lot to me and I wanted to speak up so there could be a conversation about it and I’m really glad that I did because now we are all able to talk about it. If I somehow tried to say something anonymously I don’t know if we would be having this conversation and I think it’s important. I did want my blog to be anonymous, but I’m so glad that I spoke up to the people that I did. Sorry I kind of went off on a tangent. I do hope there is further conversation around your ideas.
Thanks again for reading and commenting! And I don’t think you come across “holier-than-thou” at all.
Thanks OP! As I mentioned previously, I think you’ve been incredibly courageous throughout this – including having the difficult conversations with the leaders directly – and am so thankful that you’ve started this conversation and the culture changes I’m already seeing. That said, if the anonymous “comment box” option encourages even one more person to say what needs to be said, or to say it sooner, I think it’s worth it. In many cases, what happens after the anon comment is submitted may lead to the submitter feeling comfortable enough to have a direct conversation and take things to the next level – as you’ve done here – for the good of NP.
Thanks for taking the time to comment back on all of these – your commitment to this is so valuable!
Thanks, Stephen!
Thanks for sharing more about the anonymous “comment box” idea. It is true that I would have maybe said something anonymously sooner about some of my NP discomfort right after I started showing up to NP if I knew there was a way to do that that was encouraged. I love that you brought this idea up and I hope individual tribes discuss what might work for them.
I think this is a good reminder that of course it’s easier for co-leaders if we speak up to them directly with our thoughts, concerns, feedback…but sometimes it’s hard to do that, especially if you love NP and might feel anxious, like I did, to share something that’s really hard to talk about.
I really do hope that tribes talk about this idea! Thanks for continuing the conversation, Stephen!
Interesting, the tribe that I occasionally show up at seems to respect boundaries very well. I’m not big on hugging (just because) but occasionally I’m OK with it, and tribe members seem to respect that and be able to mostly tell which day is which…. so hats off to at least one tribe. where I can enjoy the atmosphere without always participating..
And really, at the end of the day, the way to get people comfortable with hugging is to respect boundaries so that it’s a choice.
I love and respect this person’s vulnerability to speak up! I 1000% agree that a “no” should indeed be respected, but at the same time let’s keep “shaking” to a minimum. November Project has always been, in more words of BG: “one big lovefest.” Now, if someone is being a total creeper… maybe they just have really bad game? Lol. But seriously if someone is creeping and you don’t like it, then as a guy, just be blunt to us and say you’re not interested and we’ll get the point and move on. Hugs in my opinion have to continue to be a priority staple of NP though. There is so much more energy in a #SweatyHug!!!
Or just don’t treat NP as a meat market. Our culture of hugging is about shared connection and acceptance, not part of your “game.” Nobody should have to show up at NP expecting to fend off unwanted advances. Fuck that.
Our city’s NP has become known for being a meat market. I don’t think that’s true for everyone who shows up, and definitely not for me or my friends who aren’t looking for that. However, if you are looking for that, NP in our city is definitely the place to go. lol
I also know people who force hugs on others. A person goes to high-five and the other person (proud to be known as a hugger) will say – nope, I only hug! – and go in for one. I love hugs and I look forward to them at the end of the workout. I also know many who don’t like hugs – because of triggers or personality. Is that allowed at NP? Do we have room for the non-touchers and the less social folks that still want to have fit fun? I think so. Keep doing the good, just maybe pause and ask if that’s okay. Great article.
It’s not always easy to say you’re not interested in the moment. Also, it doesn’t always work to be blunt…I’ve been personally harassed in the past by men I explicitly told to leave me alone. Unfortunately, we live in a world where people are not always heard or respected when they say “no.” What would be great is if we would respect our fellow tribe members and not try and hit on them as they work out, or speak up if we notice someone receiving unwelcomed advances. The tribe is strong when we are there for each other, and don’t tell one member who is feeling victimized to just “be blunt.”
Jimmy, while you may be open to such feedback and change your approach, the message of this blog is to say that not all people are as accepting of feedback and are not as willing to take a simple “no” as a response to a hug. We want the NP culture to continue to be welcoming, which does include physical contact of either a hug or high five, but we also don’t want to perpetuate a culture where people take liberties from this promotion to hug and bring it to a place that makes others uncomfortable. This extends past the hugging at workouts and into NP socials, events and respecting people’s space. Simply put, let’s keep hugging, most people love it, but only to the people who you know love it back.
Whoa. Better yet, don’t just “move on”. NP is not a feel ’em up dating service, is joyful humans working out and connection. Hugs should be of the sort you’d give your mother, brother or sister – not some checking out opportunity. That is creepy. That said, NP is a great way to meet people. Maybe just chat about a side date if it feels right?
Hi Jimmy,
Thanks for reading and commenting. Laura’s response is in line with what I was trying to convey in my blog. I don’t want hugs to go anywhere either. I love that people come to NP for the hugs and love it. Keep on giving sweaty hugs to all the people you know love it!
Wow….reading this it showed me a perspective I’ve only HEARD once or twice. It is important that we are an ALL INCLUSIVE community, and that means respecting people’s boundaries, wether we understand them, or not. NP was a godsend for me, as I craved the human interaction, but this is not the standard opinion of all. It takes some real courage to come out with what some may call an “unpopular opinion”. I’m glad I read this today, because it will stick with me forever. Thank you for sharing. Much love. -NP Dallas Member
Hi Sarah,
Thanks for reading and commenting. I’m glad you found NP and love it! Much love back to ya!
Wow, I love the courage in your writing and in the amount of “just showing up” that you did. It really is a matter of sensitivity and respect. For vast numbers hugs are cool, but if someone leads with one hand extended instead of an embrace, let’s just meet them where they are and convey tribal welcome through a sunny smile and a warm handshake. It’s all good and it makes our community a more inclusive place. I hope you’ll be back before long. We’re better together.
Thanks for reading and responding, Patty! I appreciate the love.
I read this a few times, just to be sure before I responded. Hugging aside, you had a negative interaction with ONE PERSON and your response was “Fuck November Project”. You used one person’s actions to represent thousands of people in the tribe around the world. That type of thinking is what causes most of the bullshit in the world around race, gender, religion, sexual orientation…using the actions of one or a few to represent the whole. After reading that, its hard for me to feel any empathy for you.
As far as hugging, I am not a hugger either, as a married guy in his late 40’s it a bit weird for me to be hugging young women, I can easily be their Dad’s age, but you know…I hug lots of guys too. I occasionally get my butt slapped. NP is family to me, even though I barely know most of these folks, I feel a bond. Its what makes NP great. I agree boundaries need to be respected and NO ONE should be touched if they dont want to – but thats human decency and respect, not November Project culture.
Hi Jim! An interesting opinion you’ve provided here, and I believe this post was a chance for everyone, on both sides of the hugging debate, to express their opinions. So I want to express my reactions to your approach on this.
I don’t think this blogger’s point was to say that one person has and will always have an effect on his/her opinion of November Project. Quite simply, the blogger actually showed the positive impact this movement has had on their life. However, this experience was a tipping point – something that can happen to anyone of us on any given day. The straw that broke the camel’s back we shall say. That doesn’t mean this blogger is giving up or completely quitting on NP. But the blogger is taking a step back because of such a scarring experience. There’s nothing wrong with that.
I think the NP Culture has always been a hugging one. The point of this blog and this Culture Shift PSA is to express the fact that before anything else, we do (and should) care about the comfort of each and every person who attends a workout. While I may love a good hug, you may not. And for that, I should respect it. But up until this blog, no one had outwardly said that “no” is an okay response to a hug. While you may believe it’s common sense in the respect of human decency, others’ opinions have been skewed by the previously suggested hugging culture. So here we are, rewriting the culture, or even the words in the book – just to remind you and me and everyone that a hug is always an option, but so is a handshake or high five or fist bump.
Happy to talk more but let’s not take away from the message this blogger wanted to portray. It wasn’t ever “Fuck You NP.” It was simply “Let’s all be decent and hear each other out.”
Much love and respect, Mia (NP NOLA)
Thank you, Mia! Everything you said is where I was trying to go with my blog. Thank you!!
Okay, easy. Let’s take a breath here. If you read the whole blog post then I’m sure you read that it’s NOT just one bad experience. Context matters. This person has had different experiences in life than you. That means they’re going to experience things slightly differently than you. And you’ll also see their response and recourse after giving it some thought. It takes a lot to admit that process so publicly!
I’m glad things are working well for you at NP. I’m glad you feel bonded to this experience and that you’ve been able to work through some discomfort. Nobody is trying to make you feel defensive, nor is anyone trying to say that your wonderful experience is less valid. Please take a moment to empathize with the fact that this person has just had different experiences that make processing NP culture differently. They’re doing an amazing job at being super thoughtful, respectful and kind. And above all else, they’ve shown up under uniquely challenging circumstances.
Major, major props to the writer for being so honest . It can be hard to advocate for yourself when the crowd is doing something different. I really admire you for that. I hope we’re able to find a way to give you what you need in this inclusive community.
Hi Micah,
I really appreciate your thoughtful response. Thanks for reading my blog, too.
Actually, she had multiple interactions with different NP participants where her “no”s were ignored because the culture of NP encourages unabashed hugging, which for her crosses a boundary that she’s uncomfortable with. Then she was sexually harassed at a NP workout. She felt violated and angry. She felt isolated because it was her word, the person who’s uncomfortable with hugging, vs. the jerk who groped her and the NP culture of hugging. In that moment of hurt and anger, she said something in her head. Then she took a step back, evaluated, and reached out to NP’s leaders. She initiated a conversation with the community about the community. The qualities she’s displayed through her actions are exactly what people and the world could use a lot more of- humility, vulnerability, empathy, courage, and openness.
Hi Ben,
Thanks for reading my blog and commenting. I really appreciate your response. Thank you!
Hi Jim!
I wanted to tackle one part of your comment that was a bit frustrating to read, especially when you concluded that you’ve read the author’s comments and feel that it’s difficult for you to have empathy for them. One of the things that’s been so difficult for me to articulate about my experience with sexual harassment (as well as many other women who have experienced it) is that it’s never about one interaction, or one person. It’s a pattern of experiences that build up over a lifetime and make each new encounter more difficult to build trust and be vulnerable. To add insult to injury, when we do open up and share these experiences, we’re met with “devil’s advocates” and “maybe it was just.. ” (to quote below, “someone with bad game”). First you go through a humiliating experience, and then you’re not even trusted that it was actually a humiliating experience. And it’s not even one ‘bad apple’ or as you say, “the actions of the few to represent the whole”– to quote Hope Jarhen, ” A great chorus of formal condemnation shall be lifted up, and my male colleagues will sputter with gall, appalled by the actions of bad apples so rare they have been encountered by every single woman I know.” Please trust women. Please trust our experiences when we say we feel unsafe or uncomfortable. I’m glad that you too have found family at NP. I moved about a year ago and went to my first NP less than a week after moving, when I knew no one.. now I have a whole tribe of incredible friends. NP is an awesome, beautiful, messy place and talking about the hard stuff makes us better.
Hey Sarah, I apologize…i may have worded it differently, my lack of empathy was for the hugging issue, not the assault issue. Hugging is a part of NP culture, and the tribes are responsible. This assault was one person’s action and that person should be responsible. The way I read the post, the author blamed NP’s culture for the assault – thats where my comment came from. I understand these things are complicated and I have no tolerance for anyone being assaulted. I think there are 2 distinct issues in this post. I agree boundaries need to be respected and NO ONE should be touched if they dont want to be.
i might have missed it, but the author their gender?
Thanks so much for reading and commenting, Sarah. I’m glad you found NP and have a tribe of incredible friends. I think talking about the hard stuff makes us better, too. Thanks for sharing your voice here.
I think it’s more than one negative interaction. The writer was never comfortable with hugs. One incident pushed them over the edge. Every interaction abs saying no took part of their autonomy.
Excellent response!
Hi Jim,
I wrote the blog and wanted to say thanks for reading and commenting. I was worried that I would write it and no one would read it, so I appreciate that you read it a few times.
I am not using “one person’s actions to represent thousands of people in the tribe around the world.” I’m bummed that that’s what you took away from my blog. I decided to speak up about my experience at NP to bring about awareness and conversation. I have had so many positive experiences at NP and have made so many great friends. I could write another blog focused all on that, but that wasn’t my focus in this blog.
It’s okay that you don’t have empathy for me. I am so grateful for people in the NP family that have surrounded me with love and support.
I’m glad NP is family to you, too. I’m with you that boundaries need to be respected and no one should be touched if they don’t want to in and outside of NP.
There are lots of parts of NP that are less than ‘perfect’ – we are imperfect beings, and kudos to all who speak up to address them. As I recover from some serious injury crap, for example, the “Bounce” is too risky for my balance and I stand in the outer ring and do what I can. When I feel safer with folks, they can toss me over their shoulder (yes, I’m talking about you) but often proactively do a bro-shake and keep my distance; if I fall it’s a bad thing.
My point, if I have one, is that there no “NP” without us all owning where we are (shitty cancer in my case, other indescribable horrors for others) and bringing them that the workouts with honesty.
I think that some things aren’t for everyone, and that’s ok too. Skiing (47 years of downhill mountain love) is now in my past, and it’s a tricky thing to work out where lines of respect get crossed (whispering weirdness in your ear? definite line crossing!) and where changes that are more fundamental and/or easy to clarify with one or two sentences (open your arms to get your hugs!!) might be called for.
Here’s to safe spaces, and the hard work we all need to engage it to create them for ourselves and others.
I think this is such a powerful message on SO many levels and I almost never comment on blog posts but feel the need to here. As a former NP’er [moved away from Boston, and currently not anywhere near an NP location… BOO! but continue to have FOMO reading all the articles and seeing all the pictures] but there is a 100% comfortableness curve coming into NP; a curve that some may overcome, and some may not, and that needs to be ‘ok’… I was never a person who would just “hug” a stranger… and I too sometimes would try to hide by anyone I knew (or a tree) just to avoid the hug. But I also agree with someones comment that it is an NP staple that should NOT dissipate in any way whatsoever, maybe just a process modification. While I eventually became more comfortable with the #sweatyhug and NP lovefest, and would hug a complete stranger some days out of pure energy and hype, I wouldn’t say I was ever 110%.
I think there’s power in taking an extra second before going in for the bear hug unannounced or unacknowledged… We all remember our first NP workout, and that unsure nod at the person next to us on whether or not they would be the 1-3 people we gave our hugs out to. A simple “hug?” verbal or nonverbal show of arms can be a game changer… and if the hug isn’t for you yet (or ever)… a gesture of a handshake can be made with no questions asked… and to not be taken personally by the person offering the hug… just give the best damn handshake you can… and maybe one day that same person offering the handshake will be ready for the #sweatyhug and if not… that’s ok too.
We all have our personal reasons to showing up… as mentioned for some it IS the human contact, but for others, it’s simply being a part of something and around the group. For me it was always about the energy and inclusiveness of everyone. What makes me happy about this conversation being brought to light… is I know that the NP community is going to be DAMN sure that everyone feels safe and comfortable starting with the next workout. Because that’s just what NP does.
It’s a community… and it’ll let this writer know.. your voice was heard, your ‘no’ is respected, and we thank you for speaking up.
Thanks for reading and for this very thoughtful comment, Stephanie. I appreciate you sharing your voice.
I love this article, and love the fact that you spoke up. Moving to D.C., I am near a NP group but have not attended a session yet (recovery from knee injury. I keep telling myself I can walk, instead of run, but still haven’t made it). While hugging is a great endorphin release, consent should be respected. If someone doesn’t want a hug, give them a high five! I’m an extrovert, so I don’t mind hugging others. Yet, I understand this can give a lot of anxiety to others.
Respect the boundaries, and be appreciative of the fact that someone came out to work out. It’s not a dating site, or a place to go just so you can hug strangers. It’s a movement for positive change, and that change can be as small as a high five.
NP DC is awesome even if you are just standing with the tribe. Go soon you will really appreciate the energy
I love all of the love in your comment, Steven! I can feel the love and I appreciate you for reading and commenting.
I don’t like commenting on anything ever but a lot of you are doing a good job helping this conversation along so I’mma try too.
I’ve been leading NP for a while now and I think it has shifted the world toward the good in many ways – mostly by changing how individuals are able to more comfortably and excitedly interact with ‘strangers’ This blog is something that will stick with me and give me a deeper appreciation for the ‘ducks feet under the water’ that many have churning but don’t share immediately.
Bottom line: No one should ever feel forced to do something that they don’t want to do.
No one. Ever.
NP should have always been (and will continue to strive to be) a place where everyone feels: welcome, encouraged and safe.
Hi DG!
Thanks for reading. I’m glad you commented to add to the conversation even though you don’t like commenting.
Do you want to know what I don’t like? That I have never traverbaled to your Milwaukee tribe. Your #milwakeupcall’s are the best thing ever and always make me laugh and put a smile on my face, so keep it up!! Big loud YES to more of that, please!
NP has changed me in so many positive ways and I love and am grateful for NP for that. Thanks for being a leader and for adding your voice here, DG!
I can see why you keep coming back, NP tends to bring out the amazing in you, hugs or no hugs. Opening out like this is not easy, I’m sure. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks so much for reading and commenting, Maria!
One of the things that I love most about November Project are the very low social barriers that exist relative to most other groups. Hugging is part of that. I think that’s one of the things that makes NP special. Since reading this anonymous blog post, I’ve been mulling over what culture shift would be appropriate in response to it. I don’t think that in general we should do less hugging, but I do think we should all be more attentive to cues that might indicate that a hug is unwelcome. And we should be fine with that – no pressure. So I guess the next time I encounter an outstretched hand at a workout, I’ll ask if a handshake would be preferable to a hug. I think that this small shift in culture/behavior could preserve what’s great about NP while still taking into consideration the legitimate reservations that some may feel.
I’m right there with you with your comment, Thom. Thanks for reading my blog and adding your voice!
What was the result of all this – are people now willing to high-five/shake hands, or are they still insistent upon hugging? The hugs are honestly something that has kept me away from NP, despite it coming so highly recommended by friends and folks on my triathlon team.
Annnnnnnd somehow the sorcery of the internet has linked to an old photo of me from 2009.
The result is we will welcome you with or without a hug. Our arms will be open and ready but will ask you before going in. Hope you get to a workout in the future!
Hi A Touch-Averse Triathlete Who is Anxious about hugs from strangers,
Thanks for reading my blog!I included a link to a PSA about a culture shift at NP the co-founders, Bojan and Brogan put out yesterday. You should watch it and then just show up for your first workout.
No one should force you to hug. High-fives and shaking hands is great!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCv8FqBsBMs
I am so beyond grateful for your bravery in writing about this topic and trusting the inclusion of the NP community enough to have an honest dialogue about it.
This focus on the physical touch (esp. hugging) part of NP is interesting to observe after taking some time away from NP myself due to discomfort with it. Long story short, I was sexually assaulted last year (outside of NP) and in my work to recover from that, I learned that despite being an avid NP attendee, it was just no longer a space in which I felt comfortable. I tried really hard to keep going because I craved the community and support of NP but at the end of the day, found myself in too many situations in which even well-meaning people were forcing their hugs and touches on me when I found physical touch to be incredibly invasive. I wanted to keep showing up and participate how I felt I could but my version of just showing up was constantly intruded upon. I don’t think you can really understand how triggering the physicality of NP is unless you’ve had that violated in your life in some way. Ultimately, my need for that safety aspect outweighed the potential support that the NP community could have offered.
This post brought it back to the forefront of my mind — it seems quite unfortunate to me that NP strives to be inclusive and yet defines what that means within a box of behaviors that are okay or not. Imagine how many more people could benefit and grow and build and be apart of NP if we were willing to accept people where they’re at? #justathought
I still hold a deep spot in my heart and a ton of gratitude for the NP community but think this is a real issue we should grapple with. How do we actually define inclusion? Deciding for others what sort of contact should be okay is one way sure fire way to make a whole segment of people less than welcome. Also, is it so hard to just ask, “is it cool if I hug you now?” Is it really lessening the connection and interaction if someone shakes your hand or has a real convo with you with as much enthusiasm as others give sweaty hugs? If connection is actually what it’s about, I don’t think so. People are still genuinely there no matter how they express it.
Hi Jess <3
Been reading through all the posts (don't tell my boss), and I was struggling to think of an effective way to prevent this situation at my tribe. I lead a free fitness tribe (no longer NP) and I'm always on the other side of this issue, constantly worrying about making sure people don't feel uncomfortable or unsafe around me because I have a criminal past, or around one another. Obviously this article hit home, and now I'm even more worried that someone in the tribe might have been feeling unsafe when I've instructed them all to hug.
You have offered a perfect remedy for this issue, while still preserving the NP culture. From now on, I'll make sure everyone first asks, "Is it ok if I hug you?" before hugging. Hopefully anyone who'd rather not hug, will speak up and hold out their hand instead. I think if the leader is instructing everyone to first ask, then everyone will understand that the NP culture allow people to say no.
Thanks for a viable solution. 😉
Thanks so much for reading my blog and commenting, Jess. I’m grateful that you shared your voice here. I think this conversation is very important and I’m really glad you’re a part of this conversation.
I think NP is trying really hard to shift the culture so that people don’t feel the way you describe and I described in my blog. These really hard and important conversations are happening and I’m really grateful for that. I hope we can all continue to have an honest dialogue that includes your voice.
I’m an occasional NPer. As an introvert, I go when I feel like I can devote the energy to interacting with a bunch of strangers on their terms. And yeah, it’s on their terms. If you don’t like hugging, or screaming random ’90s songs at 6:30 am, you’re on the outside. It’s really offputting, like a stupid high school clique. The hugs and the high fives and the faux friendship for an hour (I don’t know how many times someone has introduced themselves to me when I have met them 3 times before and know their favorite ice cream flavor) feel like annoying platitudes. And after flat-out saying no, this person still received them. That’s effed up. So I can see why this person hit the pause button.
I want to say thank you and well done to the brave, articulate soul who wrote this. I too am not a hugger. I too went to NP for the first time last year with a friend and, unlike this individual, did say “fuck NP” (though some have suggested here the writer did the same, that is evidently untrue).
The point is, NP represents such a wonderful, supportive, consistent community and family to so many of you. I know that if I felt my need for space would be respected, I would be more likely to “just show up”. And isn’t that what NP is all about? No matter our differences, creating a place where we can all come together in our sameness: a love for community and NP.
Thanks for sharing and starting this conversation, anonymous NPer. The forced hug culture has been one reason I stopped going to November project. I actually really thrive on physical contact- so I’ve had to learn that for others, that contact may not feel positive. And the fact that to me hugs make me feel comfortable and welcomed is not more important than the fact that to another hugs can be uncomfortable or unwanted. It does not matter why they are unwanted- no is no, and it’s so important to respect people’s boundaries. Even if you don’t understand why they don’t like hugs. Even if you think they don’t have a ‘good’ reason.
I’m really grateful that folks are having this conversation now. I think we have so much to gain by not just accepting that folks are different- but also find ways to change the dominant narrative or culture to make space for them. That’s what community is about.
I love this post for many reasons! It moved me to tears! I love the hugs at NP. I’m a hugger. I love the connection!
But that is just me! And for every person like me who would happily hug everyone in sight there are going to be equal numbers who don’t want to hug!
I was a big pusher for the hugging because ‘that’s NP’ but yet we talk about NP being inclusive and to turn people off because they don’t want to be hugged is insane! I’ve started to change my thoughts on this recently because NP is about community and developing relationships and respecting people and that means respecting everyone’s point of view and not making them feel uncomfortable. I feel the hugging is a representation of what the movement is trying to do and that’s connect people but it’s weird to think you can’t be connected unless you hug because of course you can!
At the end of the day everyone is different and we should celebrate that! Not try to push an agenda because we feel it’s right because that’s the same as shoving politics or religion at someone! We should be celebrating our differences and respecting people!
I will still be hugging! I love hugs and I do feel the world needs more and I love that NP brings that. When I’ve brought my friends along they’re always a bit shocked by the hugs but only coz it’s not their norm! They don’t have an issue with it and I love that they then think about this and realise yeah hugs are great BECAUSE THE WORLD NEEDS MORE LOVE!
We should still be hugging people but we 💯 shouldn’t be saying that if people don’t hug they’re not welcome! We should still be showing love!
So THANKYOU for raising this!
NP is for everyone! and we can alll use a bit more
Tolerance in the world!
Lots of love
Thank you for sharing your experience and speaking up when it’s much easier to be silent. Nothing wrong with stepping away and taking care of yourself for however long you need to. Consent is crucial and I hope NPers can hear this message, feel some empathy, and respect each other’s boundaries. Belonging is more important than subscribing to every component of the cultural.
Wow! I really appreciate the op posting this. It provided me with a point of view I hadn’t considered before. The great thing about life is we never stop learning. I’m grateful for your input.
I can only speak for myself. In the future, should a tribe member refuse a hug and offer a shake I will gladly shake. I won’t be offended. I won’t pass judgment. I’ll just smile and say “I’m glad you’re here.”
First of all, thank you Anonymous Blogger, you who not only conjured up the courage to face your own fears by addressing a personal issue, but also took the time and energy to articulate and share your thoughts in a way that would resonate throughout our entire community. It’s not often we allow ourselves to be so vulnerable and to let others be a part of that experience, which is why I felt so compelled to respond. You’re worth acknowledging, respecting, and caring for, as are the many for whom you speak that share similar experiences and face similar aversions.
As someone who greatly appreciates the value of human contact, of a hug, because I understand how truly vulnerable of an act it is to embrace another person, it pains me to know that people have taken advantage of others through this part of NP’s culture. Worse, though, is knowing that there are people who feel unsafe, for any reason, in a place that I work hard to make feel inviting to and supportive of everyone.
If/ when you come to November Project, I want to hug you. I want you to hug other people. I think it’s important that we all allow ourselves to be vulnerable for a few moments every day and give trust to another person so that we may both grow from it. I think human contact is important for the social and emotional growth of all people. But, that contact has to be healthy, and it can’t feel forced. It MUST be welcomed and accepted with permission.
From its conception NP has maintained a sort of implied consent (with some exceptions #donthugallice) when it comes to hugs. If you #justshowup you’re going to get a hug. I’m not going to lie, that’s a huge part of what made NP so appealing to me; not because I lacked human contact, but because I found a group of people who placed high value in it the same way I do. I can go to any number of free run clubs, yoga sessions, and the like… but where else can I go that includes that extra key component of personal development [whole hearted hips-in community] as part of my weekly routine? The answer is nowhere. There’s nothing else like November Project and it isn’t because they revolutionized the workout industry. No, it’s because they revolutionized community building through direct personal contact; reinforced by verbal support and mutual accountability. For me to say that I feel it is important for this to remain a key component of November Project is an understatement. That said, if exceptions can be made for allergies, then they sure as shit can be made for other reasons as well.
I empathize with anyone who has endured, and/or continues to endure, physical, mental, and emotional abuse. I empathize with anyone who feels uncomfortable with human contact. I empathize with anyone who just doesn’t really care to be hugged. I also empathize with anyone who has never received healthy human contact and yearns for it. I empathize with anyone who has had a rough week and just needs a hug. I empathize with anyone who can’t hug enough people and doing so fuels their passion for life.
As I said before, I believe hugs and human contact are as healthy and necessary to life as oxygen. I also recognize and respect that some people don’t immediately (and may never) feel safe allowing themselves to be embraced by a friend, let alone a complete stranger. What I propose, from me to you (not to be confused with November Project as a whole), is that if you come to a November Project workout you should expect that hugs are strongly encouraged. If, for any reason you do not feel comfortable giving or receiving a hug, you should feel empowered to say so with no fear of judgement or ill will. You do not need to explain yourself. What I ask, instead, is that you reach out to at least one person in your own way to let them know that you’re gratelful for them taking the time to be with you. I encourage you to work towards expanding your reach to more people each and every time you show up. I encourage you to do your absolute best to allow yourself to be vulnerable for a few moments every day and to let someone else be a part of it. What that looks like for each of us is different. What it looks [looked?] like to Bojan and BG is in the form of a sweaty hug (3 points of contact!). NP is about building community, right? So, if hugs aren’t your thing, how can the tribe help you grow? How can you help the tribe grow? How can we keep hugs and human contact a core part of this movement while also being respectful and receptive of individuals who feel threatened by it? To us huggers, this means doing our part to help rebuild the trust that so many others before us have taken for granted — however it best suits each individual.
Today, tomorrow, and always I promise to do my best to listen and to work towards being a better version of myself. Please, keep sharing your thoughts so that we can grow together.
Much love.
Ditto … well said brother
Hi Chris,
Thanks so much for reading and for your very thoughtful response. I’m really glad you added your voice to this conversation. Thank you for working to make NP feel inviting and supportive of everyone.
I’m glad you love the hugs! I don’t want hugging to go anywhere. I just don’t like the forced hugging vibe that I felt. I love that people are now talking more about it and I hope conversations like this will also happen offline so we can continue these conversations.
I have become a lot more vulnerable and changed a lot since showing up to NP. I have also been hurt, so I have naturally stepped back.
Do I hope to be able to become more comfortable with hugs? Yep. Can NP help with that? Yep.
I will take on your challenge…”reach out to at least one person in your own way to let them know that you’re gratelful for them taking the time to be with you. I encourage you to work towards expanding your reach to more people each and every time you show up. I encourage you to do your absolute best to allow yourself to be vulnerable for a few moments every day and to let someone else be a part of it.”
I’ll report back on how I’m doing with your challenge. Thank you!
Really interesting article to read, with some great points made (and in the ensuing comments), both for and against the hugging culture.
I just wanted to say what a positive experience I’ve had at the LA November Project, in terms of respecting personal boundaries. This morning (prior to reading this blog) was my third NP workout – and whilst I’m quite comfortable being hugged by people I don’t really know, I’m from a country that’s renowned for it’s reservedness…so I automatically go for a handshake or high five when I first meet someone.
This morning I spoke to around eight people I’ve not met before – and only hugged one of them (which was actually initiated by me, as we misjudged our high five 😆) – everyone else I high fived or shook hands with – and everyone was absolutely fine with that and was still very warm and welcoming.
So I suppose I just wanted to say what a shame it is that the author of the original post has had this experience – and to give a shout out to the members of the LA branch for being so accepting of differing comfort levels.
Unfortunately and fortunately I’ve always been a hugger.. I have to stop myself a lot in the real world (outside of NP) when I go in for a hug and either warn/ask the person.. but most of the time I’m already mid-embrace and then I find myself apologizing profusely.
While I don’t share the same emotions with hugging and touching, I do have other issues with NP stuff (to echo above sentiments: nothing is perfect).. things like calling newbies out (reminds me of bad childhood church experiences) and even the bounce sometimes ! (Can’t I just stand back and observe the positive vibe without coming across as standoffish or unfriendly??) I’m glad we are having open discussions about this, and I thank you for being vulnerable !! I hope you have a lovely break.
( Fwiw, I often need NP breaks because it is a lot of social interaction and it gets overwhelming and exhausting (discomfort aside). Plus, when you’ve been part of something for so long and there’s always new people, it’s even more to keep up with as I’m sure you know!)
I propose “arms raised if you want some hugs” as the new cue after the bounce.
#whoiswithme
#consentmadeclear
I appreciate the time, energy and bravery it took to write the post. However,I find this entire situation very sad. My two cents. The NP Movement was founded on unconventionality. It’s free, we awake at ungodly hours, we’re weatherproof, we’re loud, we just show up, we race everything and most importantly we hold each other accountable. It is 100% unacceptable that we would ever allow inappropriate or unwanted physical contact. However, calling for a cultural change in my opinion puts us on a very slippery slope and sets an unfortunate precedent. What do we do if someone is uncomfortable with Fuck Yeah? or Sports Bras? or short shorts? (Paul Leak) What do we do if someone feels they are being racially discriminated against because they can’t get a hug? How do we address the selective hugger? Personally it makes me feel uncomfortable if someone doesn’t want a hug. Am I too sweaty? Too smelly? Too old? Too hairy? I know ” it’s not you it’s me” Do we really want to bring HR into NP? It’s a workout not a workplace. We’re on the same team. Teammates hug each other. I think the implementation of this new policy needs to be flushed out further. Maybe there is another way to address the issue without the awkward and impractical solution of asking first? BG and Bojan I think you did successfully convert many ” I’m not a hugger” tribe members. I’m sorry but you know i read the book. ” It’s a Midwest thing” Graham said. We say, shakers don’t risk anything in life. In Boston, there’s a vibe that’s pretty cool, but if you give someone a big bear hug every bit of coolness drops to the floor. You forget about not feeling good enough or fast enough. And if you show up as a hardcore athlete about to throw down, it makes you chill the fuck out. Everyone finds comfort in it. people might think it’s weird, that’s fine. We’re going to keep doing it. It’s a huge dose of Community….”
Everything you read in the book is still true, unconventionality, weirdness, fuck yeahs, physical contact… was and will continue to be a huge big part of NP. However, one thing that I’m more aware is when I attempt to engage in a hug, high-five, elbow touch… and the person on the receiving end is not comfortable proceeding, I will not, as I have on numerous occasions, continue while saying, “but that’s what we do at NP”. I think that we can all agree on this point.
I think you are missing the point entirely by saying that asking for consent is “awkward or uncomfortable.” Consent must be explicit or it’s not consent. I hope you will reconsider your stance.
Hi Mary Anna.I’m not missing anything Please consider this. A handshake in our culture is accepted, expected and customary. i know many people including my wife who are germaphobes and refuse to shake hands. Every week in church people extend their hand to her and it just hangs there and it is very awkward. I know many churches have addressed this but ours hasn’t yet. I digress. I totally respect a person’s desire to not be touched however, i think when it comes to touching that is part of the culture, like a hug in November Project, the onus should be on the person who doesn’t want to partake to communicate that and for the rest of us to respect it.
Lew- you bring up probably the most important points of any of the comments on here, and I hope everyone takes the time to read what you wrote.
I think the OP makes 2 separate points.
Point 1: If anyone is being harassed or touched inappropriately, that is not okay in NP or anywhere, and if someone doesn’t agree to that then they have other issues.
Point 2: #hugGate2017
We have to look at NP in the same vain that we look at life as a whole, and decide what battles are worth fighting for. In NP, sweaty hugs, yelling curse words, waking up early, they are, at this point, traditions.
This is NP’s house. And much like my parents house, I don’t necessarily like every single tradition, or rule, but it’s not my house. If they ask me to take my shoes off, say grace, take off my hat, etc. I do it, even if I am uncomfortable, because it is not my house and they are not asking me to do something that puts me in imminent danger.
Not everything in life is going to be concerned with your feelings. Sometimes you have to decide what is worth fighting for, and do the costs outweigh the benefits?
I am not saying each person should be forced to hug, but each person should be forced to think about their choices, and ask what is most important to them.
What is going to make you the happiest?
Will it make you the happiest to stray from the crowd, to draw the attention to yourself, to stand out, so that you can feel more comfortable? Does standing out in general, make you comfortable?
The fact is, that hugging IS an NP tradition, and there is nothing wrong with that. But if you choose not to engage, you will stand out. It doesn’t have to be negative, but it would be a result of your avoiding the situation.
When something that an entire group is doing makes you uncomfortable, you have to decide what is going to make you MORE uncomfortable. Not doing the thing, and being the odd man out. Or doing the thing that you don’t love.
There can be extreme examples of this: all your friends are doing drugs.
There can be minute examples of this: all your friends are wearing ugly friendship bracelets.
If it is something worth fighting for and you must speak up, then do so, don’t be shy, but decide what makes something extreme and what makes something minute.
Dear Thinker,
Thinking about the unfortunate consequences of sexual trauma (e.g., avoiding intimate contact with others, e.g., avoiding hips-in-hugs) as a choice comparable to the decision to smoke some dope or wear a friendship bracelet to fit in (both actions which require consent) seems to trivialize both the cause (an act perpetrated without consent) and the effects of unwanted sexual advances, whether physical or verbal. Please do not blame victims for their often unwanted reactions to their unwanted traumas. I would argue that creating a greater culture of inclusivity within November Project is something worth fighting for. Regardless of whether any of us view a scenario as extreme or minute or anywhere along the spectrum, I offer that we might listen generously to the human who experienced said scenario and hold space for them to be, just as they are.
Wild love,
A fellow tribe member
Dear Fist❤️,
It seems like you may have misunderstood this example. I was not comparing consequences of sexual trauma to anything, in fact, I never mentioned it. I compared the example of joining friends in certain situations that may be uncomfortable to the specific situation being addressed here, possible uncomfortably hugging at November Project. Where a majority is doing something you may not like for ANY reason. The spectrum is how much do you not like the activity, again for any reason.
I’m not sure where you see blame being placed, as again, I never mention that.
I agree with creating greater inclusivity, but I encourage you to read Lew’s original comment of which I was further commenting.
As Lew mentions: What about the person who feels unsafe because someone did not hug them? Or the selective hugger?
Which is why I moved further to say, which battles in your life are most important? What is worth fighting for?
In the grand scheme of all your days, will it take more of your personal energy to tell people “no” or more energy to do the uncomfortable thing?
These are the questions we must ask ourselves. Each person can decide what is right for them.
Dear Thinker,
I read and reread and read again each of your comments before deciding to reply. I understand both Lew’s and your arguements and respectfully disagree with them.
I believe the onus should be on our community, not the victim (or other nonhugger, or other nonconformist, because fuck conventionality). This person, and any person that decides to #justshowup, needn’t feel like an outsider or draw unnecessary attention for forgoing a hug or three. Teammates also high five. Some tribes say “oh yeah” instead of “fuck yeah.” Some people wear little to nothing and some people are fully clothed and wearing hijabs. We’re adaptable. We can communicate and connect and uplift and support each other with and without hugs. We can compromise and create mutual consent.
This isn’t anyone’s parents’ house. Even if it were, the two head honchos are evidently in favor of not just going down but shredding the gnar down this slippery slope of discussing, acknowledging, and embracing (again, in a literal sense, whether verbally or physically) our individual needs. But this is OUR house (in the middle of the street). The rules are ever evolving. Each tribe has its own shtick and caters to its community. “Traditions” here change all the time. New leadership and new members cycle through. The movement is always growing, quantitatively AND qualititaively.
Though hugging may not be placing a sexual trauma survivor in immediate danger, it may very strongly psychologically and physiologically feel this way. And (note: not however, which negates the previous statement), as you said, it doesn’t really matter why a person chooses what they choose. The problem here is that either choice (staying involved and saying “no,” or excluding themselves from the group) has been made to feel uncomfortable. Why would we choose to be insensitive to said “no” and thus exclusive? How can we be less intimidating and more inclusive?
I wholly agree with you on respecting autonomy, and otherwise agree to disagree.
Wild love.
Hi Lew,
Thanks for reading and commenting. I can tell from your comment that you really love NP and I love that!
In writing my blog I wanted to bring about awareness and conversation. My understanding is that individual tribes are talking about this and addressing it in their own way, and I don’t think there is a strict new policy that everyone in every tribe is following. I hope someone corrects me if I’m wrong.
For me personally, I really want my “NO” respected because it hasn’t always been. I don’t need someone to ask me specifically, “can I give you a hug?” I will say “NO” if someone is forcing a hug and it’s unwanted. That’s just where I’m at now. Does that make sense?
I have never wanted hugs to be banned from NP. Now I kinda feel like I’m going against what I said in my blog but I really don’t want to label myself as a hugger or a shaker. Am I more comfortable with shaking hands vs. hugging when I first meet someone? Yes. Do I want to become more comfortable with hugs? Also, yes.
Thanks for sharing that quote from the book because I read it and I totally wish I could be like that. It is a step out of my comfort zone just to show up to NP, even if I’m more comfortable “shaking” that day. So, in my opinion, I am taking a risk. I wish I could say that when someone gives me a bear hug I “forget about not feeling good enough or fast enough…and I chill the fuck out.” Fuck, I hope I get to that place someday. But currently, if someone gives me a bear hug, specifically someone I don’t really know, it doesn’t often feel good.
I don’t find comfort in hugs a lot of the time, but that doesn’t mean I want to take them away from people who do. I want people in NP to keep hugging.
Thanks for sharing your voice, Lew. You really made me think and I appreciate that. (And now I need to figure out what this Paul Leak short shorts reference is about- I feel out of the loop! Ha!)
Reading through the post and the many comments on it. I have a few points to make:
First, thank you to the author for opening up and speaking up about your concerns. I have discussed these things with friends before but bringing the discussion to the forefront is important. Thanks because I also know I have been one of those to profess that hugging is a very important part of the culture and while I still think it is important, I agree with what I think the major point you bring to the table, that we need to be very wary to hug with consent and respect when hugs are declined. Also for men especially because we carry a lot of privilege to be aware to avoid crossing boundaries. I know I am guilty of playing with friends with boundaries, but for all I know I could be the transgressor and I want to avoid being on that side of the line.
Second, to all worried that hugs are under attack here, I don’t believe that is the concern. It is simply that we need to hold space open for those who want the space to say no. As professed before, offering a hug with arms open and waiting for the other to respond in kind helps open the door to them declining and offering a hand or high-5 or simply a “no, thank you”.
Third, to anyone questioning believing the experience of the author–> Just stop. No one is going to write this without some major experiences. As a man I cannot speak directly to how women are regularly harassed and imposed on, but i hear enough through friends and articles that it does not stop. So know when any one speaks out we need to listen and hear what is being told. Being uncomfortable is okay. Listening is critical.
Doing my own best to listen and see what I can do to help,
–Elin from NP_BOS
the author doesn’t identify their gender
I love NP for the way that it thinks outside the box about fitness, community, weather, clothing, geography, time, space, and language. Now I also love NP for providing a voice for the previously voiceless. “Showing Up” provides a glimpse into some of our tribe, but it always reminds me that each of us has a truly unique – sometimes silent – story. A tribe connection for the majority can come from a hug, but we have to always be mindful that an anti-hugger is not necessarily an anti-NPer.
This post was beautiful, poignant, and genuine, and I am grateful to read it. I applaud your strength for speaking up and for putting down into words what most people could not even summon the breath to say out loud. As someone who was always apprehensive about showing up to NP for many different reasons, one key part has always been given to me as a comfort– it’s scalable. If you can modify your push-ups, your burpees, and just about every other action under the sun, there is more than enough room to scale physical contact to everyone’s comfort level. That should be respected above all else.
I am a hugger– I always have been. And prior to showing up to NP, I reached out to two other people I had never met to thank them for sharing their stories with similar candor, on this blog and with others. What I looked forward to most was hugging them (with permission– I checked!) and sharing in that moment of accomplishment with them. To remind them that they were a part of the reason I showed up. Because if they could be themselves and love it, then I could, too. I will add your story to the list of reasons why showing up for others matters, but showing up for yourself is most important.
Your ability to see what so many people gain from those hugs is remarkable, and I thank you for keeping an open mind and heart for as long as you have. Take heart that many read this call for change and welcomed it with open minds and open arms. Because even hard-core huggers know that a hug isn’t the only way to connect. And know that should I ever come across a “No” when it comes time to hug, I’ll extend my hand with a lotta love, and say “I’m glad YOU are you, and that YOU are here.”
Part of NP is about getting people to push themselves and to step outside of their comfort zone, and the weirdness and hugging began as a part of that.
BUT
It is one thing to *encourage* people to step outside of their comfort zone. It is quite another to *push* someone out of their comfort zone.
I’m a long-time NP member (Feb. ’13) but I have been working longer with an experiential education organization that builds amazingly strong communities from groups of kids around the world, and the most important thing in creating a space where everyone feels safe and secure and *able* to step outside of their comfort zone? It’s building an atmosphere of trust and respect and not just shoving them out of it because “that’s what we do.”
Being a positive, inclusive community is far more important to the lasting success of NP than just hugs. When someone voices their discomfort, we owe it to them to listen and to try and address their concerns, even if it makes for awkward conversations and difficult moments. Some of the comments and stories that have come up as a result of Anonymous writing this guest blog have been really troubling.
If you’re turning to someone you don’t know and you don’t know if they’re comfortable with a hug, offer one with open arms and let them *choose* to come to you. And be okay with their saying no.
Unwanted hugs are worse than no hugs.
(Side note: to the person who complained about someone introducing themselves three times: I’m sorry. I’m terrible with names.)
Bravo to the person who started this thread . . . I “just showed up” not quiet a year ago, after reading about NP in the local paper. I’m a long time runner, late 50’s, looking for an alternative to putting in the miles of roadwork. Easily at the upper extreme of the age demographic, I was pleasantly surprised at how accepting the Tribe was (and continues to be).
I was a little uncomfortable with the hugs (still am), but certainly not to the extent of the original writer. My family experience growing up didn’t include hugs (forced or otherwise), so it’s a new thing for me to hug strangers (and sweaty ones at that). I get the “social connection” aspect of the hug, but if I had a say, I would adopt a rule that says, “If you don’t want to hug, raise your hand for a high five — and if the other person raises the hand for a high five, you high five them.” No judging anyone for their preference — it’s a matter of respect.
And as a father of a 30 something daughter, I totally understand the comments about the “creep factor.” Believe me, that’s the LAST thing I want. Frankly, I am uncomfortable hugging someone my daughter’s age or younger.
I guess what I’m saying is, Encourage the hugs, but don’t require them. Maybe over time, a comfort level will grow – but don’t force it. Respect the individual who showed up.
I love my Tribe and the community. I’ll keep showing up, no matter what comes of this. And thanks for listening.
NP is a place where everone should be welcome. I love hugs and Im always leary of just slapping a hug on someone. I like to see open arms, a smile…some sign of approval. Especially with people of the opposite gender. I love NP and the awesome positivity but I would hate to think we are missing out on great people b/c of an issue that need a tweek.
Arms open wide, bring in the hugs. Hand in the air, slap that bad boy. Outstretched fist, pound it! Heck, i think we should be doing the bump with a little hip check.
Bottom line (for me), everyone should feel welcome. Everone should respect the boundries of others. Everyone should #justshowup, get sweaty, and leave feeling awesome!
I think in a world that’s largely no-contact; having a tribe which, multiple times a week provides a space for that is incredible. At NP I feel I am provided the OPPORTUNITY and SPACE to hug and share close proximity with people, whom for me still are largely strangers. I think this is a unique and incredible quality of NP.
That said, echoing so many comments above; the point cannot be to FORCE contact because that undercuts the point of hugging in the first place which, in my opinion at least, is to express some love, some validation, and some recognition for the folks around you.
Perhaps we could build into NP a symbol or sign for “No-contact please” which we could all learn and welcome with an equally impassioned smile-on-the-face I-love-you-stranger-quality high-five or hand-shake. That way we don’t have to worry about not-being-heard or not-being-understood or not-being-taken-seriously.
We could do arms crossed in front of the chest or something that might be widely recognized as a sign for “pause/stop/no” – that way we could continue to default to the “hug” which I agree is a staple of NP, while respecting those individuals who may not want to partake in that ONE PIECE of what makes NP special.
As someone who has also struggled with social anxiety, NP is special to me because it makes me feel validated, seen, encouraged, and capable WITHOUT feeling judged or scrutinized. There is no reason why we cannot incorporate a sign for an opt-out that comes free of judgment, and instead is met with an NP sized breath of contact-free encouragement. At the end of the day, we don’t say “i’m glad you’re here because you hug me” we say “i’m glad your here” and we should all recommit to the meaning of that phrase.
I recommend a quick pat of the hands across the chest in an X shape as a signal for anyone who would like to remain hug-free, when approached by a hugger. This is done in contact dance communities, another place where touch is assumed.
At first I didn’t think I had anything relevant to see to this discussion that hasn’t already been covered, beyond the reiteration of supporting everyone however they need to be supported in their presence at NP. And perhaps suggesting a signal like mentioned above that shows hugs are off limits, since often a hand shake is confused with someone who is new and not familiar with customs yet, but is still ok with the contact.
But then I realized that every single person my daughter has ever met at NP has Always respected her boundaries on whether she even wants to say Hi to someone, let alone give a high five or hug to, from the time before she could even talk to the present day. So my question is, if we respect a child’s decision on how much interaction to have, shouldn’t that same level of respect be extended to so the adults too?
In teaching our children to respect and take ownership of their own bodies, we must also ensure that all people have the same level of control over their own bodies and space.
So I appreciate this conversation and knowing that the future at NP will continue to improve upon this situation for everyone, and that one day this will reach the entire world.
I moved to a new city about 3 years ago, and was recommended to check out NP by mutual friends about 1 year after that. As others said above, it was unconventional by design and the camaraderie between the people there to work out was apparent to me right off the bat. My work schedule changed soon afterwards and I wasn’t able to stick with NP, but I did show up for about 10 workouts or so at that time. However, despite the camaraderie (and despite growing up in a family who always demonstrated its affection for one another), I was also pretty put-off by the constant and not-always-wanted physical contact. I have no problem hugging or showing those feelings to people I’m familiar with, but all the touching from strangers along with my changing work schedule made it the right call for me to find my tribe elsewhere.
So in conclusion, I wholeheartedly respect the courage and character of the OP in sharing their story, and hope NP will reconsider how it perceives the comfort level of those who “show up” for its activities.
High five for the tremendous courage that was shown by the author to put their story to “paper.” Good on you, BG an Bojan for listening and giving the poster a voice- and for having the strength to allow for introspection. Good on those of you who listened and respected the perspective without being defensive- that can be hard.
I remember meeting BG and he turned my handshake into a hug (which I was all for), but having been in Hong Kong long enough to find this completely out of the ordinary. As our tribe grew, we learned that hugging was *way* outside the cultural norms for newcomers (across Asia, EU, AU) and found out that there might be a trade-off between growth through inclusion and the element of physical contact through hugs.
In time, we happily settled for a high five greeting- even if awkwardly at first – and hugs (mostly from other North American expats and traverbals). The guys down there are killing it so something must be working.
It’s different from person to person. It’s different from tribe to tribe. Thankfully, NP is a place where you can be face to face with such a variety of people that that becomes self evident.
I respect that this is the place that the author comes from, and appreciate that they expressed it in a hope, I believe, to make NP more inclusive. I respect and understand that to some people, a hug is an expression of the utmost comradery and inclusion.
We all have to reconsile those two things.
Thanks, BG and Bojan for being real about the positivity and inclusion. And the free fitness.
If you really need a rule 🙄, I propose:
1 ✋ up = high five/shake
2 ✋s up = hug
Right of way goes to person with fewer hands in the air. (I bet you’ll also see a second hand go up more often than not.)
<3
That is quite the anonymous NP blog and subsequent comments.
I’m sorry to hear how NP has been a bad experience for some because of exaggerated and unwanted behaviors by others.
I so love the NP culture, the crazy fun we have working out, the sharing of encouragement with high fives. Beides being in the best shape in years. And yes, the good morning hugs and good job/ #sweatyhug. I understand there are different levels of comfort with this level of hugging. Others have suggested strategies for those that are uncomfortable hugging, eg which seems reasonable way to say not now, no.
I really appreciate the author for writing this piece. It took great courage to come forward and I hope she sees her words are powerful. I am sad that November Project in some places is a “meat market” according to the comments in the blog. That seems like a theme that should be addressed pretty explicitly in those cities. I wonder what it would be like if NP leaders had a weird gesture and topic of the week / month / whatever and people could engage in that weird gesture first (weird gestures could include, but are not limited to roundhouse air high fives, toe taps, shimmies, etc), discuss the presented topic (like find 2 things you have in common, what’s your dream vacation, favorite thing you’ve read recently) to form a deeper connection, and then, if they both choose, could huge. Just ideas. I’m happy this conversation is happening.
could hug*
Hi all,
I wrote this blog and wanted to thank you all for sharing your voice here. I’m really grateful this conversation is happening and I hope it continues offline. I’m going to try to respond to some of these comments throughout the day so feel free to ask me questions or comment and I’ll do my best to respond. Thank you.
I’m a new-ish, but totally pro-hug NP member- for me there’s a sense of inclusivity and validation that comes from friends and strangers recognizing each other with a friendly embrace 🙂
That said, I am really glad this post was shared and that we are all having a conversation about consent and personal space/comfort levels. We all need reminders now and again on respect and boundaries–not five minutes after our co-leaders gave us the heads-up on this issue, I went in for a hug with a member I didn’t know! They said it was cool and if there was body language to the contrary I would have changed course, so I’m grateful in advance for the patience with those of us who are creatures of habit and may need reminders or signals when the other person is opposed. I know we have the capacity to respect and accept differences of any kind, and if we’re open enough to welcome sweaty hugs from strangers, I’m confident we’re also open enough for anyone to feel comfortable saying they’d rather not- and that’s totally okay.
Also, in a world full of negative discourse, it’s been awesome to read this kind of supportive and civil/productive dialogue. Just another reason I love this gang–thank you all for being here!
I just started showing up to NPWoo after showing up in Boston a couple times a few years back. I was surprised and very pleased this week when there was a clear announcement made that we should tell everyone we were happy they were there with a hug, high five, fist bump, wave, smile, or whatever gesture we all felt comfortable with. As an extroverted introvert, I crave the community and experience of NP, but I feel most comfortable on the very edge of the bounce, jumping a little lighter, and skipping the hugs (even though I’m happy everyone’s there!). I’ve always felt welcome at NP, it’s just nice to be shown that I’m welcome on my own terms. That is the true meaning of inclusiveness, and I’m super grateful for it!
Things to consider:
Physical contact brings out the best and worst in people.
Balancing that is a complicated matter.
People will always do dumb shit
The search for the greatest good will often hurt some people.
We should strive for what is best for the greatest good.
Life isn’t fair. Believing it is or should be is a mistake.
Empathize. Empathize. Empathize.
Most importantly, don’t be a dick!
Feel free to complete these paragraph headers as you wish. I know many of you will extrapolate the remainder of the paragraph as you believe I would write it. I encourage you not to do so. Finish the thoughts on your own without putting words into my mouth. Add your own thoughts. I’m not actually saying the, “If this person is saying (fill in the blank here), then he’s wrong.”
Awesome post. We all have our own histories, comforts, and discomforts, and it is always good to be reminded of that <3 a culture full of deep personal respect, empathy, and understanding is a way more powerful culture of connection and support than a culture of just physical touch (and for some, both together can be an even greater force!)
As a lifelong hugger, I am so incredibly grateful to our anonymous poster for your bravery, grace, and articulation. Because hugging comes naturally to me, I often forget that not only does it not come naturally for some, it can be downright terrifying and traumatizing for others. All of you non-huggers out there, please accept my sincere apology on behalf of the we-can-never-get-enough-hugs crew for any of the times we have ignorantly assumed you love sweaty embraces as much as we do, but haven’t felt comfortable saying no or have felt pressured into grinning and bearing our unwanted 6am affection!
One of the things I love about NP (and brag about often) is that no matter who you are, what your age is, or even what your current level of fitness- you BELONG here. NP is hands-down THE most inclusive non-faith-based community I’ve ever been part of, and it would break my heart to know that someone was made to feel that NP wasn’t for them because they aren’t into stinky embraces from total strangers.
There are so many little cultural quirks and norms built into NP (#verbals, #fuckyeas, #traverbals, #wemissedyou, high five tunnels, grassroots gear… I could go on forever!) that are so fun to discover as you dive into this amazing community, how hard would it be to incorporate one more? I like (and second) the suggestion made of “one hand up is for high fives and two hands up is an open invitation for hugs” (sorry I forget who posted that one, otherwise I’d give you full credit for it)!
This is wonderfuly written and it probably took a lot of courage for this person to speak up about what they are uncomfortable with, rather than just accepting things as they are and having that taint their NP experience. We are all human beings with different comfort levels and its important for us to know and respect that to be truly inclusive